Priest vs. Druid discussion

[barks]

So I was looking at some stats last night and this is what I think is fact. Correct me where I'm wrong please

Priest's healing abilities:
Flash Heal: 1.5sec cast, 900HP, 385mana to cast
Renew: ic, 820hp over 15s, 370mana to cast
Greater Heal: 4sec cast (3.5 if talented), 2500hp, 1000mana to cast
Prayer of Healing: 3sec (2.5 if talented), heals group for 900hp, 1030mana to cast

Druid's healing abilities:
Healing Touch: 3.5sec cast, 2100hp, 790mana
Rejuvenation: ic, 756 over 12 seconds, 335mana
Regrowth: 2sec, 1050hp + 1064/21secs, 880mana
Tranquility: ic, heals group 294 every 2sec over 10sec, 1235mana

1. Druids have 2 HoTs heals about 1800hp over 21secs or 171/tick. Priest has Renew as their only HoT, heals 820hp over 15s or 109/tick.

2. Druids can casts Regrowth+Rej, then Spam Regrowth to keep stuff alive. Priests' flash healing twice to do about the same.

4. Priests use less mana but have to drink to rebuild. Druid if specked for it has Innervate regening 400% manna every 6min, or end of every fight in raid. NO downtime.

5. I don't think that a Priest has in instant cast spell talent. I know Druid has Natures Swiftness to instant cast 2000 health every 3minutes.

6. Battle Rez, 3sec casts in battle to rez a player and I think the Priests needs to wait after fight. but the Druid has a 30minute timer.

7. The Priest has Shield and the Druid has Barkskin. Shield rocks btw. making the priest less vulnerable to being killed during mêlée

So Priests are better healers but only by a little bit. What (other than what I have listed) are the other ways they are better? And shadow form they are a damage machines. Much quicker killer than a druid.

A druid is more likely to stay alive during a long protracted fight owing to their ability to bear for extra health and health regeneration, cat to stealth and hide and their mana regeneration ability.

How does a Shaman compare? Other Thoughts?

[Mackadoody]

Mages wear cloth.... When I was lvl 51, I was grinding in Azshara, and some rogue backstabbed me for 1460 dmg. I only had 1440 HP...

sucked.

[TotalCarnage]

This is why we are seeking Druids. What it gives you is a mix, a mix that can make or break big endgame bosses.

[barks]

This is why we are seeking Druids. What it gives you is a mix, a mix that can make or break big endgame bosses.
Exactly.

Just trying to expand the knowledge of which class can do what. I never knew about shield till OldDragon threw on on me and man was that sweet. Hopefully it makes for some fun discussion and improved tactics after we know what each other can do better.

[Kachio]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=266997&p=1&tmp=1#post266997

1. Spamming regrowth is not mana efficient. It's a waste of the 20 second HoT. It's better to put both HoTs on the tank and then do a Healing Touch. NS if you're in deep trouble.

2. Shield and Barkskin is apples and oranges. Shield is more comparable to Rejuvination than it is to Barkskin.

3. Just because we have innervate does not mean we have no downtime. I drink all the time. Priests have larger mana pools than druids. Innervate is designed for an OOM save during an intense battle.

[barks]

2. Shield and Barkskin is apples and oranges. Shield is more comparable to Rejuvination than it is to Barkskin.
How is a shield comparable to Rejuvination? Is it building health or just preventing damange?


3. Just because we have innervate does not mean we have no downtime. I drink all the time.
agreed but do we drink less?


Priests have larger mana pools than druids. Innervate is designed for an OOM save during an intense battle. Sorry what is OOM?

[Kachio]

OOM is a common acronym for Out Of Mana.

I drink more than Kavista, a priest I often group with, does. It depends on spirit amount, and perhaps also on player choice. I don't like entering combat without full mana if I am a primary healer.

When comparing Rejuvination to Shield, you can remark that they're both targetable, instants, and achieve the same goal in a certain situation. That situation being when the target is under attack and taking steady damage. Both are meant to counter DPS taken by the target. One does it by absorbing damage, the other does it by mathematically offsetting it. Barkskin, on the other hand, only works on the druid casting it, only affects physical damage taken (not magical), and only mitigates 20% of that damage. Barkskin is primarily used to successfully cast channeling spells like Hurricane and Tranquility, or get off a critical Healing Touch while getting zerged and not having NS available.

[TotalCarnage]

OOM is a common acronym for Out Of Mana.

I drink more than Kavista, a priest I often group with, does. It depends on spirit amount, and perhaps also on player choice. I don't like entering combat without full mana if I am a primary healer.

When comparing Rejuvination to Shield, you can remark that they're both targetable, instants, and achieve the same goal in a certain situation. That situation being when the target is under attack and taking steady damage. Both are meant to counter DPS taken by the target. One does it by absorbing damage, the other does it by mathematically offsetting it. Barkskin, on the other hand, only works on the druid casting it, only affects physical damage taken (not magical), and only mitigates 20% of that damage. Barkskin is primarily used to successfully cast channeling spells like Hurricane and Tranquility, or get off a critical Healing Touch while getting zerged and not having NS available.

Good info here. Druids are probably the class we have the least of, as a result we can't provide much guidance to barks ;) My dealings with Druids usually ahve to do with them being on the pointy end of my sword, not healing me ;)

[Kachio]

Something I should have added before, about innervate:

Innervate is best used in the following situations during intense/boss battles: If you are OOM but the priest is not, to cast it on yourself to keep healing. If you are OOM and the priest is also OOM, cast it on the priest and go into bear form.

[Kachio]

Another thing: Fade. Druids have a fade, and it's called bear form.

You know you're in a good group when the tank and the melee DPS are constantly watching for when the healer catches agro, so they can drag it off the healer. Let's say that a healer catches mob agro, and it charges the healer.

A priest's Fade spell reduces the threat of the priest to zero for X time. In this case, the mob that went after the priest will run back to whoever was second on its threat list. But, only for X time. If the tank/DPS doesn't realize this, the preist will catch the agro again immediately after the fade wears off. Hopefully they do realize this and build up some agro against that mob (or mobs) before the fade wears off.

A primary healer druid catching agro after a heal can go to bear form, which does not get rid of agro but instead significantly increases the druid's health and armor. A druid trying to get rid of agro in this case should not attack as a bear (this would build agro we don't want), but instead wait in bear form for the tank/dps to pull the mobs off them. After they're all pulled off, the druid can go back to caster form and continue healing.

[xeno]

good info... i am rolling a druid after i am done with my alch/herb rogue :)

[Kachio]

Another thing I have tried once was going to cat form and attempting a Cower when catching agro. This can work in certain situations, but it is dangerous for a number of reasons. There is no health or armor bonus in cat form, and if the mob you cower before doesn't have significant agro against anyone else, it won't stop attacking you. Also, it is an entirely useless tactic if you're under attack by more than one mob.

[Methuselah]

Lest we forget the Shaman, who can not only kick your butt with high-end frost and earth shocks, 1 and 2 handed axes, maces, daggers and staves, but who can also heal that same butt with:

Lesser Healing 380 mana 1.5 sec cast for 832-928 mana
Mana Tide Totem 240 mana Instant for 240 mana every 3 secs for 12 secs.
and last, but certainly not least...

Healing Wave 3 sec cast for 1017-1167 mana for up to 3 party members.

I also probably have the highest "spirit (regen rate)" of any Shaman we have!

Meth

[Kavista]

Just as the perspective of a high level priest, I will agree with Kachio, that a priest will almost always have a larger mana pool. I'm in heaven when I'm grouping with a mage and druid (AI and MotW), my mana pool crests 7000 (and spirit is near 300). Additionally, I've specced talents to lower the cost of my insta-casts (renew, shield).

During the battle, I try to bunch-up my heals, then switch to wand-spamming, to let my spirit regen the mana I just used for healing. At the end of a battle, I generally can get away with not drinking, because I can regen the mana spent before the next one begins. Whenever I enter an OOM situation, getting an innervate will allow me to regen almost 1/2 my mana pool.

My only complaint about my healing is the time it takes to cast the BIG heal. I know I can drop it from 4sec to 3.5sec with holy talents, but it's not something I'm ever planning on. I've crit-healed some tanks for 3500 health with a single cast. Tanks that are unfamiliar with that sometimes experience jaw-drop.

Neither class is better than the other in terms of healing, they're just different. A restoration druid and and a priest will complement each other rather well keeping a raid tank alive.

[Kachio]

Lest we forget the Shaman, who can not only kick your butt with high-end frost and earth shocks, 1 and 2 handed axes, maces, daggers and staves, but who can also heal that same butt with:

Lesser Healing 380 mana 1.5 sec cast for 832-928 mana
Mana Tide Totem 240 mana Instant for 240 mana every 3 secs for 12 secs.
and last, but certainly not least...

Healing Wave 3 sec cast for 1017-1167 mana for up to 3 party members.

I also probably have the highest "spirit (regen rate)" of any Shaman we have!

Meth
I was happy to have a 58 shaman as supporting healer and DPS last night in LBRS.

[Dokar]

A restoration druid and and a priest will complement each other rather well keeping a raid tank alive.
Or in our case, a bunch of rogues... :D

[Wez]

Neither class is better than the other in terms of healing, they're just different. A restoration druid and and a priest will complement each other rather well keeping a raid tank alive.

QFE

Most comparisons of heals vs. heals from different classes, miss a lot of factors that need to be considered and factored in to the overall comparison. Healing spells are just that...regardless of which class is casting them, they are going to look similar. Its all the other factors (class stat gains, supporting spells, likely equipment builds, etc) that make a class powerful or not. I spend a lot of time dispelling, fearing (constantly in PvP, sometimes in PvE) and shielding, neither of which can be done as effectively by any other class. I do think priests need some sort of instant heal, but every class has its want lists.

After playing a priest to 60 on one server and now playing one on this server, I'm wishing I could just grab and axe and cleave sombodies head in.....8)

[Cyclone]

Do priests or druids excel in one type of heal versus another? Without getting into the technical data posted. In Everquest for instance, druids were really nice "fill in the gap" healers, but they weren't very mana efficient. Over a long fight (and some of the everquest fights -yes, a fight with 1 single mob!- could last 45 minutes or more), a druid would be OOM way before a priest would. Could that be the situation here? Given the same mana pool and comparitive gear, could a druid outlast a priest when it comes to healing?

[Wez]

Its all situational. As far as dealing out healing power, you can't beat a priest. That being said, it is great to have a mix of classes who all complement each other. Combined arms is always best. Backup healers in the form of Druids and shamans are great additions to any party, and can help alleviate some aggro from the priest.

I know when a Druid casts inervate on me, it can keep the party alive much better than if they cast it on themselves. A priests group heal has no equal and can save the raid.

If you want the best healer, its a priest, no doubt about it. If you want to be able to heal, and also have other value you add to a party, than you can roll a druid or shaman.

[sultaro]

I read a very very long drawn out debate thread somewhere about this and of course people still have different opinions. Not being bias but the dispelling and cure nasty infections and shackle undead tilts to the Priest.

I have been in several "RAIDS" and have yet had a Druid cast this "inervate" at least on me that is. The sleep seemed to be very hit and miss. I don't know if that is something talent points can beef up or what?

I do think there buff is best one in the game and I really like having one in the group. Makes things a little easier for everyone due to there "Jack of all trades" ablitities.

[barks]

good info... i am rolling a druid after i am done with my alch/herb rogue :)
Xeno,

If you do this I have been collecting information for months on what it means to play a Druid, tactics, tips, etc.. Not all of it is good advice and much is contradictory, but I am a blieaver that more information is better than less. If you want I'll be glad to clean up and share.

[Kachio]

I read a very very long drawn out debate thread somewhere about this and of course people still have different opinions. Not being bias but the dispelling and cure nasty infections and shackle undead tilts to the Priest.

I have been in several "RAIDS" and have yet had a Druid cast this "inervate" at least on me that is. The sleep seemed to be very hit and miss. I don't know if that is something talent points can beef up or what?

I do think there buff is best one in the game and I really like having one in the group. Makes things a little easier for everyone due to there "Jack of all trades" ablitities.
The Hibernate spell is almost guaranteed to work on beasts, and lasts a good while (30 to 40 secs). Casting it on dragonkin is another matter entirely though. With dragonkin, the resist rate is insane (at level 60 it's typical to see lvl ~60 elite dragonkin resist sleep around 80% of the time) and when it finally does land, the effect will last all of 4 or 5 seconds if you're lucky. No talents improve hibernate.

As for innervate, it's situational. First you have to have a druid that's actually spec'd for it, then you have to get into a bad fight where the priest goes OOM, have the innervate off the cooldown timer, have the druid be alive at the time the priest is OOM, and he's got to realize the situation and take action.

It's happened a time or two for me, but it's not the only use of innervate. Last night I used innervate on a mage that was OOM while we were under attack from a bunch of nonelites, with the goal of getting that AOE off and saving our butts.

[barks]

The sleep seemed to be very hit and miss. I don't know if that is something talent points can beef up or what?

I have had good luck with sleep but it does appear to be dependent on the lvl. I slept a lvl 60 pet while a bunch of guys were attacking a hunter and the sleep lasted 10 to 15 seconds but at my level it works for 30 to 40. Also sleep goes away when someone hits the beast.

[Kachio]

I think the reason Hibernate is so misunderstood by so many people is that there aren't really any situations where it's heavily utilized. Maybe it also has to do with druids underestimating the skill. I didn't really use it much until much later in my druid career. Did you know that I can hibernate a druid while he's in animal form and, say, carrying the flag in warsong? If you want to make a hunter cry, try sleeping his pet and then rooting him so the rogue can hand him his ass. The reason so many are familiar with sheep is that humanoids are the main target in every group situation from RFC on up the ladder. It's a rare instance where you don't find tons of humanoids, and usually in that case you're dealing with undead (shackle), instead of beasts, which is the enemy type that gets owned by sleep. Note I didn't say dragonkin. As I said before, that's another bag entirely, and drives me up the wall.

[sultaro]

dragonkin...yup that is where it was tryed and didn't work :( but we incountered an alliance Druid who knew all to well to quickly sleep the hunters pet! That was a big pain in the arse!

[barks]

In the WoW Druid forum this link was posted.
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=534914&topic=21706050

Is it real. Who knows, just FYI. The information in the post lasted online about an hour or so. The information I copied and paraphrase here:


Due to significant talent changes, Druids will have all talent points refunded and can be respent.

Cat Form - Attack power bonus increased from 120 to 180.
Bear Form - Attack power bonus increased from 180 to 240.
Druids can now shapeshift out of any Feral form while feared
New ability Feral Strike - Increases damage of Druid's next attack by 50%, and adds 10 damage
Improved Demoralizing Roar - Effectiveness increase from talent increased to 8%/16%/24%/32%/40%
Predatory Strikes - Now affects Druid's total attack power in cat form.
As a result, effectiveness increase from talent decreased to 2% to 10%.
Primal Instinct - Design changed. Primal Instinct now is a passive ability that increases Cat Form's Energy regeneration rate by 25%, and gives Bear
Form a 100% chance to gain 1 additional Rage
New Talent Viciousness - Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Claw, Shred, and Ravage abilities by 4%/8%/12%/16%/20%.
Improved Shred - In addition to reducing Energy cost, this talent will now increase damage dealt
Strength of the Wild - Effectiveness increase from talent increase up to 24%.
Improved Pounce - In addition to giving a chance to add an additional combo point, this talent now increases the stun duration of Pounce by 1 second/2 seconds.
Furor - You are no longer considered in combat for a short time immediately after shifting into Bear or Dire Bear form.
Ferocious Bite - Fixed a bug where all combo points are lost after miss/dodge/block/parry.

[Kachio]

If those changes are indeed real and not just made up to play with the emotions of druids, it might actually make feral viable endgame. Those changes will also make druids the next "omgnerf<insert_class_here>!!" whipping boy.

I wouldn't give it much creedence until it shows up on a blizzard site though.